Listening In (18 page)

JFK:
Yeah. Yeah. But isn’t that peculiar? You see, it shows that there’s, he’s really losing his grip. Here, he’s in to see me, to ask me to come up to that dinner, you know …

RFK:
Yeah.

JFK:
… and he’s coming in, the morning he comes in you’d think that at least he’d have given me a soft soap, that would’ve been much more difficult.

RFK:
Yeah. What’d you say to him?

JFK:
Oh, I left it with him in the morning, sort of, let’s get a few good ones out of you. But then I decided, you know, and said I’ll let you know later if I can come, but I just thought I don’t want to leave it in doubt, ’cause you know, he will write a couple of good ones, and then I’d have to go, and I think, the
Newsweek
and Graham and everybody would think that was a, and in addition I think probably for me to be up there for
Time
, after what has obviously been—would we look like a …

RFK:
Yeah. We wrote out the mistakes they made on the, just on the one thing, which was on the Cuban prisoners and, just incredible! I mean, how many, they just …

JFK:
Yeah. Yeah.

RFK:
… they just didn’t want to make an effort, do they?

JFK:
No. It’s you know, it’s a real, I mean they’re just mean as hell up there. But I don’t think it registers on them, or something.

RFK:
He doesn’t consider it, he doesn’t see …

JFK:
I don’t think it registers on him. No, you know, they’re awfully fair during, they were good in the campaign, and that was because—[unclear]’s the real …

RFK:
Yeah.

JFK:
He’s the son of a bitch up there. And he, you see, he was out in the campaign, and they were pretty good, so I mean I don’t think Luce is hostile, I think he just, you know, he hasn’t got any sensitivity, he doesn’t probably like the thing much anyway, but he hasn’t got any sensitivity, he couldn’t, he didn’t think, seem to think this was bad even though there were five letters to the editor that all stunk. So, anyway, I thought I’d just write and tell him I didn’t think I’d go.

RFK:
Was he jolly?

JFK:
Oh, yeah, he’s very agreeable, very pleasant.

RFK:
What I called you about is this damn school construction.

JFK:
Yeah?

RFK:
You know, for the schools down in these bases?

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
Had you wanted the schools to be put up?

JFK:
No, I haven’t really given this matter any thought at all, I just …

RFK:
They understood over at HEW, you know, Ribicoff
¹⁴
announced it last March.

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
And as I understood that you weren’t …

JFK:
That’s right.

RFK:
… exactly happy about that.

JFK:
Well, I didn’t know what, that’s right.

RFK:
And then, they, and it’s quite ridiculous actually, but then, and then they announced back in January, because they understood from Ted Sorensen that you wanted an announcement. They were going to put two more schools out, and they’ve announced six, but, for instance, Fort McClellan, they’re gonna erect a school for, well, no, here’s one, Fort Rucker. Grades one to six, 892 on-base children, a total of fourteen Negro children, and the estimated cost is $742,000.

JFK:
Just because of the fourteen?

RFK:
Yeah. Fort Stewart’s twenty-three children, that’s $297,000. Robbins Air Force Base is eight Negro children, $594,000. Fort Jackson, eighteen children, $234,000.

JFK:
Fort Jackson where? Where’s Fort Jackson?

RFK:
Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Myrtle Beach is …

JFK:
And what is your suggestion?

RFK:
Well, and then they’re gonna put two more, so it’s eight. It’s gonna cost about three million bucks. We got a court case, you see, at the present time.

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
And which probably won’t be resolved for another year, or a year and a, maybe two years before it perhaps goes to the Supreme Court which will resolve all of these matters. What they will do by spending for these eight places, they’ll spend about $3 million, and they’ll get maybe an extra year for about fifty or sixty children …

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
… Negro children. Well, they’ve been going all this long period of time, it just seems like a hell of a lot of money. Now …

JFK:
Well, the problem is a political problem, I suppose, isn’t it?

RFK:
Yeah. Having made the announcement.

JFK:
Yeah. But, you know, was Roy Wilkins criticizing the way HEW did it first?

RFK:
Yeah. Well, now, can I, can we see what …

JFK:
What we should’ve done is just left with the …

RFK:
That’s right.

JFK:
… legal case. I don’t know how we got beyond that.

RFK:
Well that’s what was a mistake …

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
… which was made at the end of January.

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
But I told ’em over there that …

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
… make sure we have coordination on these damn things.

JFK:
Yeah.

RFK:
Ah well, can we leave it at that, if you don’t have any strong feeling about it?

JFK:
I want to talk to Ted Sorensen, ’cause he’s been working on it.

RFK:
All right.

JFK:
Let me find out, ’cause he may know some of the problems that I don’t know on it.

RFK:
Well, I, what I’d like to do is to see if I could work something out, which would be satisfactory to everybody. Maybe it’s not possible, but they are …

JFK:
Or maybe you can …

RFK:
Celebrezze
¹⁵
thought that you had been personally interested so I want to …

JFK:
No, I’m not. I don’t care. Just a real question of trying to deal with a political problem.

RFK:
Well, whatever we do, we’ll talk to Ted first.

JFK:
OK, fine. I’ll talk to him. Right.

CALL TO SENATOR EDWARD M. KENNEDY, MARCH 7, 1963

President Kennedy’s youngest brother, Edward M. Kennedy, was one of the principal beneficiaries of the 1962 midterm election, and he won the Senate seat that he would hold until his death in 2009. Not yet “the Lion of the Senate,” in this call he regales his older brother with humorous stories of Massachusetts politics.

PRESIDENT KENNEDY INTRODUCES HIS BROTHER SENATOR EDWARD M. KENNEDY (D-MASSACHUSETTS) AT A MASSACHUSETTS DEMOCRATIC PARTY FUND-RAISER, BOSTON ARMORY, OCTOBER 19, 1963

EMK:
… You know the thing that sort of got this, the one thing like yesterday that they had the big horse laugh about is they said, here’s a guy, you know one of the wool people said, here’s a guy who’s talking about keeping out foreign imports, he says, and what’s he do, but pulls up in a Mercedes-Benz!

JFK:
Who’s that?

EMK:
Herter.
¹⁶

JFK:
Oh, is that right?

EMK:
Yeah, and he evidently drives around here and he’s got that Massachusetts governor’s license plate on it, or something, so …

JFK:
[laughs]

EMK:
… everyone turns around and takes a look …

JFK:
[laughs]

EMK:
… he drove up to that wool meeting. He said that really let the balloon, air out of every balloon in there.

JFK:
Right.

EMK:
But …

JFK:
But, of course, it’s tough, I tell you, boy, we went through that yesterday for two hours …

EMK:
Yeah.

JFK:
… about what we could do on wool. You see, those guys don’t want to give up that market.

EMK:
Yeah.

JFK:
And, you know, it’s just a …

EMK:
Well, he’s got a, you know …

JFK:
But anyway, Christian, he’s a great free-trader, but we’re anyway, we’re gonna, we’re meeting with Pastore
¹⁷
tomorrow and we’ll discuss it then.

EMK:
He’s, Mike’s got, he’s really got a … awfully good grasp, and he made a hell of a good presentation …

JFK:
Right.

EMK:
… of the problem.

JFK:
OK, good, fine.

EMK:
Good enough.

JFK:
See you later.

EMK:
Bye.

CALL TO SENATOR GEORGE SMATHERS, JUNE 4, 1963

As President, Kennedy retained many of his friendships from the Senate. He particularly enjoyed the company of George Smathers, a Florida Democrat who acted as a groomsman at his wedding, and managed the Southeast for Kennedy’s presidential campaign. Smathers did not support much of the Civil Rights agenda, but his personal friendship was meaningful to Kennedy, and as this conversation shows, they laughed easily together.

JFK:
[reading a facetious note] “… due to your correspondence with various members of the government over the last eighteen months, it appears to me that you are experiencing serious worries that the United States is about to be attacked by the United Nations. This is, indeed, a serious condition. In order to be able to be of assistance to you, I am glad to inform you that the president will fulfill his oath of office and defend the United States from any attack. The President does not believe the United States would be attacked by the United Nations, Iceland, Chad or the Samoan Islands. But he does want you to clearly understand that regardless of the source of the attack he will meet his responsibilities under the United States Constitution.”