CB:
Johnny, can I ask you, how old are you?
Johnny:
Sixty-five this year.
CB:
And so where were you during the miners' strike?
Johnny:
Erm, Nottingham, flyin' picketin'.
CB:
You were a flying picket?
Johnny:
Yeah, we did Orgreave . . . 'Ave you 'eard anything about it?
CB:
I've heard a lot about it. You're a legend.
Johnny:
Oh, well.
CB:
So were you a miner your whole life?
Johnny:
Yeah. Twenty . . . thirty-one years at it.
[
Rooster crows in background
]
CB:
When you think of the strike, what's the first word that comes to mind?
Harry:
Poor.
Johnny:
It weren't you know, like, I wouldn't a missed it, it were, you know, like, I saw more o' ta country in that twelve
months 'tan I seen in all me life, you knowâyou know what I mean, I mean, everywhere were different, I mean, we went inta Nottingham, I've never been in Nottingham beforeâI mean, you know, it's only sixty mile away, innit, you knowâ
CB:
So how did you come to be a flying picket? Who approached you?
Johnny:
Well, I were union, you know . . .
CB:
Right. And they said, “We need flying pickets. Would you like to be one?”
Johnny:
And we went to union meeting, all go'd, all volunteered. Most o' the people went.
CB:
And so were you paid toâ
Johnny:
A pound.
Brian:
A pound per day.
CB:
And did they pay your expenses, too?
Johnny:
Uh, the person that 'ad the car, got the petrol money.
187
CB:
Right. And how long in advance did they tell you where you needed to be?
Johnny:
Uh, the mornin'.
CB:
In the morning they'd say, “We need you to go toâ”
Johnny:
Yeah. Because our place and our phones were bugged and everything, yeah.
CB:
So you were at Orgreave.
Johnny:
Yeah, I were at Orgreave, yeah.
CB:
Tell me how you remember that. When did you realizeâ
Johnny:
It were 'airy! You know, it were really, you knowâ
CB:
Were you expecting it to be?
Johnny:
Well, we were just, you know, our police, you know they were all tappin' their shields like Zulus, you know?
CB:
Like what?
Johnny, Harry:
Like Zulus!
Johnny:
You know that film,
Zulu
âyou know when all those Zulus were all tappin' their shields?
Brian:
Their truncheons against their shieldsâ
CB :
Right.
Harry:
And the police were goin' bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, ba-bomâ
Johnny:
bom, bom, bom, bom, bom!
CB:
And so you were already there, on the picket line, when the police arrivedâ
Johnny:
Police arrived? It were an army!
CB:
OK, so the army arrives, but you were there alreadyâ
Johnny:
They 'ad us penned in a field. We couldn't get out! They were a world round me, just herded us into here, and we couldn't get out, and I mean, summat lunged out, and I didn't see, and I went in the old out-and-bottom, some-un of us jumped out and ran, and there were dogs after 'em,'orses, and, you know, arrested, andâI were OK, I were in the middle o' it, there were a big lad runnin', Teddyâ
Harry:
Carl.
Johnny:
Carl. Carl, not Teddy. And I mean this copper, you know'e were a big lad, and [
smacks fist
]âlike that. 'E went straight down, everybody cheered! But you know, they just got 'im and arrest 'im. You know, there weren't many, they had it all sewn upâ
Harry:
They had a plan.
Brian:
It was a trap, wasn't it. Orgreave was a trap.
CB:
When did you realize it was a trap? Did you think so at the time?
Johnny:
No, after. You know, we thought it wouldn't last, you know, a week. I mean, '72 were five week, '74 were seven week, and maybe, nothing as long as that, twelve, or eleven, orâbut not twelve months.
CB:
At what point in the big strike did you realize something different was happening, when did you start to realize this was really part of historyâ
Johnny:
Never. We just carried on, you know, 'til it were finished. And it kept going.
CB:
What happened to you after the strike?
Johnny:
Well, I took redundancy, yeah. I handed in my papers, and I didn't want nought to do with it. And I wanted everybody to do the same.
Harry:
That were after the pit closed.
Johnny:
Ay?
Harry:
That were after the pit closed.
Johnny:
No, the pit were open.
Harry:
Ay.
Johnny:
You know when we went back, I handed on my papers. I said, this is no job! Handed 'em in I'd a got sacked, because they said “I want you to go and drive this machine.” Says I, I've lost my confidence, I don't want to drive anymore, I wanted everyone to do thatâ
Harry:
That's so right.
Johnny:
You know, this other guy said, they said, go put that Airedale upâ
CB:
Go put that what up?
Johnny, Harry:
Air door. Ventilation.
Johnny:
You know, he says, “Put that air door up,” and I says, “I'm a miner, not a joiner.” You know. He says, “If you don't put it up, you got to go home,” so I says, so I went home. I'd had enough. That were it for me. But there was only me doing it. One day, I came off the face, they says, they're sending [unintelligible] on, do you remember that, little kidâdaft as a bush, 'e were!
Harry:
That one were out of it, weren't he!
[
They fall about laughing; I'm lost
.]
Johnny:
What were the manager, then? That little blokeâ
Harry:
Not the bloody one that came from collegeâa Geordieâ
Johnny:
No, that weren't him. Belford.
CB:
What made Scargill so popular? Why did people follow Scargill?
Johnny:
He were a good speaker, weren't 'e?
Harry:
He were a good speaker.
Johnny:
I mean, 'e told 'em what they wanted to 'ear, but . . .
C
B:
When you saw him speak, was there something in particular he said that really moved and impressed you?
Johnny:
Everything 'e said. 'E was my 'ero.
CB:
Pardon?
Johnny:
Were my 'ero.
CB:
Was he?
Johnny:
Yep.
CB:
Is he still your hero?
Johnny:
I think so.
CB:
You don't feel like he let you down?
Johnny:
No. I think a lot of people did.
Harry:
A lot of people did.
Johnny:
But I don't think he did. I mean, they blackened 'is name that much, didn't they, blackened 'is name that muchâyou know, everybody, the press did it, the media did it. Crikey . . . You want a beer? [
goes to fridge, passes beer around, sound of flip-tabs opening
]
Brian:
No more, honestly, I'm alright.
Johnny:
You all havin' one?
CB:
Thank you.
Harry:
Cheers.
CB:
Cheers.
Johnny to Brian:
Are you sure?
Brian:
Yes, yes, thank you.
Johnny:
You don't like beer?
CB:
When you say Scargill was your hero, did you ever think about his being a Marxistâ
Johnny:
No.
CB:
Did thatâwere you a Marxist as well? Or was it just not that important?
Johnny:
Well I vote BNP now.
188
CB:
You vote BNP now? Why do you vote for them?
Johnny:
Eh?
CB:
Why do you vote for them?
Johnny:
'Cause I don't like Tony Blair. 'E's give this country away, hasn't he? Don't you think so? 'E's give this country away. Give it away to Muslims.
[
Finds a BNP leaflet, passes it around
]
Johnny:
Everything it says in there, I believe in it.
Harry:
Yeah?
Johnny:
Yep.
CB:
But the BNP isâ
Johnny:
He's gonna sell this bloody country away. What a man. Worst man since Hitler then.
Brian:
Tony Blair?
Johnny:
Yeah. 'Orrible.
Brian:
Worse than Thatcher?
Johnny:
Eh?
Brian:
So where do you see Thatcher, then?
Johnny:
Well, she knackered
us
up.
CB:
Do you think she was good for the country overall?
Johnny:
Hmmm. I got me own house now through her. Only a pit house, that, but I own it. And I never'd owned if she hadn't got in. I don't think anybody else woulda done it, uh. Maybe they would have. I mean, if I had had a chance, I'd a shot her.
Brian:
Every miner would've shot her.
Harry:
I'll get drunk when she leaves. [
Gestures at vegetable patch
] I mean, this is what we got left now.
[
Rooster crows
]
Harry:
After the strike, after the pit closed, they went from pit to pit, it were. The life we had, weren't it, you knowâ
Johnny:
Yeah.
Brian:
Your wife went to Russia, toured about with Scargill to Russia, didn't sheâ
Johnny:
Yeah, she toured aroundâ
CB:
With Scargill? To Russia?
Johnny:
Yeah, but Mrs. Scargill went.
CB:
Mrs. Scargill went with your wife?
Johnny:
Well, there were about two or three 'undred of 'em. [
loud belch
]
CB:
And when was this?
Johnny:
All of 'em worked in kitchens, were kitchen women.
CB:
Who paid for that?
Johnny:
Miners. Russian miners.
Harry, Brian:
Miners. Russian miners.
CB:
Well, how did the Russian miners pay for it?
Johnny:
Hmmmm.
Brian:
Well, union, union fees!
Johnny:
Or whatever. I don't know.
Harry:
Generous people.
Brian:
It would be union fees. I don't think it would be the government.
Harry:
No, it weren't the government.
Brian:
The union feesâ
CB:
You seriously think the Russian miners just gave up money, out of their salaries, toâ
Harry:
Yes, of course.
Johnny:
Yeah.
Brian:
Of course. No problem. I don'tâhonestly, Claire.
Harry:
We'd a done the same for 'em.
Brian:
Miners is miners.
Harry:
I mean, miners is not just a national thing, it's an international thing.
Johnny:
I mean, the unions paid for it. Playin' fair. You know . . .
C
B:
OK, look. How, out of Russian rubles, Soviet rubles at the time, which were not convertibleâ
Johnny:
They were sendin' food parcels over.
Harry:
Sending food parcels, there's a lot o' bloody food thereâ
CB:
And you really think this was from the Russian miners and not the Soviet government?
All:
It was!
Johnny:
It wasn't from the government.
Brian:
Don't concentrate on Russia. You're concentrating on Russia. Australia did itâ
Johnny:
Yep.
Brian:
You got, anywhere which had got coal mines would be sending unionâ
Harry:
If they could afford it, they'd be sending itâfood parcels, or some donation, towardsâ
Brian:
Yes. French miners, Belgian minersâ
Harry:
German minersâ
[
Rooster crows
]
CB:
Why did the unions agree to go along with the pit closures before Thatcher? I mean, there were a lot of them under Labour, too.
Harry:
There weren't a lot of pit closures under Labour.
CB:
Do you think Thatcher wanted to destroy the coal industry?
Brian:
I don't think she could bloody understand it.
Harry:
She wanted to destroy the unions.
CB:
She wanted to destroy the unions so much that she was willing to sacrifice the coal industryâ
All:
Yes, yesâ
Brian:
It was the unions [
all talking, unintelligible
]â
Johnny:
And at the top of the unions was miners, so once you got miners, you got itâ
CB:
Why do you think she hated the unions so much?