Poking a Dead Frog: Conversations with Today's Top Comedy Writers
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Authors: Mike Sacks
PRAISE FOR MIKE SACKS
Poking a Dead Frog
“A greater look into the craft and business of comedy writing than you can find anywhere else. . . . A comedy nerd Bible.”
—Bradford Evans,
Splitsider
“No one generates more interesting, revealing, entertaining interviews than Mike Sacks. His love and knowledge of comedy are apparent, and, as a result, the fascinating and sometimes tight-lipped comedy greats open up to him in ways they rarely do.
Poking a Dead Frog
is a classic.”
—Bob Odenkirk
And Here’s the Kicker
“Comedy writers . . . tend to be depressed, brilliant, erratic, and sometimes even funny. Mike Sacks’s collection of remarkably frank interviews with twenty-one of them reads like a secret history of popular culture.”
—Time
“One of the most essential comedy resources ever written. . . . An indispensable window into the minds of many of the most influential comedic minds of the last several decades.”
—Comedy Central Insider
“Compulsively readable . . . enormously winning . . . [and] filled with great advice on how to make it in an insanely difficult field. If someone were to ask me how to break into comedy writing, I would encourage them to read this book. . . . A funny, sad, tremendously insightful group portrait of the comic mind.”
—Nathan Rabin,
The Onion
“Entertaining and informative.”
—The New York Times
“A fascinating mix of cultural reportage, how-to, and hagiography . . . Sacks digs into the inner workings of the comic mind (a sometimes deeply troubled one) and into the inner sanctum of the writers’ room
.
”
—The Austin Chronicle
“Laughter may be universal, but the world of comedy writing is shrouded in mystery. . . . [Sacks] helps lift the veil.”
—Vanity Fair
Your Wildest Dreams, Within Reason
“
Your Wildest Dreams, Within Reason
makes you laugh out loud, and at the same time it inspires wonder. . . . Mike Sacks is not just a sensational comic writer, but a sensational writer—period.”
—David Sedaris
“A brilliant and hilarious writer.”
—Comedy Central Insider
“A hugely eclectic and highly original collection.”
—The Huffington Post
“The fun in
Your Wildest Dreams
is watching Sacks unpack his weirdness, and there’s plenty of weirdness to unpack. . . . [A] breezy, imaginative humor anthology.”
—The Onion
Sex: Our Bodies, Our Junk
“Finally, someone has managed to find the hilarious flipside to the unspeakable tragedy we all know as ‘human sexuality.’”
—Jon Stewart
“A spot-on parody of earnest sex guides,
Our Bodies, Our Junk
is a hilarious and addictive page-turner.”
—Publishers Weekly
PENGUIN BOOKS
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A Penguin Random House Company
First published in Penguin Books 2014
Copyright © 2014 by Michael Sacks
Penguin supports copyright. Copyright fuels creativity, encourages diverse voices, promotes free speech, and creates a vibrant culture. Thank you for buying an authorized edition of this book and for complying with copyright laws by not reproducing, scanning, or distributing any part of it in any form without permission. You are supporting writers and allowing Penguin to continue to publish books for every reader.
Text from the cartoon “Item #3715 - Cozy Cardigan” by Roz Chast. Used by permission of Roz Chast and Conde Nast Licensing.
Excerpt from “Step Brothers” movie review by Roger Ebert. Used by permission.
Excerpts from “Freaks and Greeks” character bible by Paul Feig. Used by permission of Feigo, Inc.
Late Night with Conan O’Brien
submission packet by Todd Levin. Used by permission of Todd Levin.
“Temple of Laughter” by Edward Jessen (pages 448 and 449). (www.edwardjessen.co.uk)
Other illustrations by Louise Pomeroy. (www.louisezpomeroy.com)
Photograph by Seth Olenick. (www.setholenick.com)
LIBRARY OF CONGRESS CATALOGING-IN-PUBLICATION DATA
Sacks, Mike.
Poking a dead frog : conversations with today’s top comedy writers / Mike Sacks.
pages cm
ISBN 978-1-101-61327-6 (eBook)
1. Stand-up comedy—United States. 2. Comedians—United States—Interviews. 3. Comedians—United States—Anecdotes. I. Title.
PN1969.C65S23 2014
792.702'8092—dc23
2014005646
Version_1
For K & Little D,
and for my parents, Elaine and Jerry
“Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect.”
—Teller
“I was not the class clown. . . . I’ve always maintained that the class clown, the guy [who] when the teacher is out of the room sets the clock back, makes noise, throws water balloons around the room, those kids . . . grow up and they’re killed in a motel shoot-out.”
—Conan O’Brien
“I wanted to play on the dark side, a little bit under the center of tonality. Not really flat, but just on the underneath side.”
—Chet Baker
“And now I’ll serve you the beans you so justly deserve.”
—Chris Elliott as Marlon Brando,
Late Night with David Letterman
Interview
JAMES DOWNEY
(Saturday Night Live)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Writing for Monty Python
TERRY JONES
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
DIABLO CODY
: (Juno, Young Adult, Sweet Valley High)
Interview
MIKE SCHUR
(Saturday Night Live, The Office, Parks and Recreation)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Writing a Submission Packet for Late-Night TV
TODD LEVIN
(Conan)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
ANDRÉS DU BOUCHET
(Best Week Ever, Conan)
Interview
HENRY BEARD
(National Lampoon, Bored of the Rings, Latin for All Occasions)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Getting the Details Right
JAMES L. BROOKS
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
MEGAN AMRAM
(Parks and Recreation)
Interview
PEG LYNCH
(Ethel and Albert)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Writing for Seinfeld
PETER MEHLMAN
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
PAUL F. TOMPKINS
(Mr. Show, Best Week Ever, Bob’s Burgers)
Interview
ADAM McKAY
(Saturday Night Live, Anchorman, Talladega Nights, Step Brothers)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
SCOTT JACOBSON
(The Daily Show, Bob’s Burgers)
Interview
BRUCE JAY FRIEDMAN
(Stern, The Heartbreak Kid, Stir Crazy, Splash)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Writing Jokes for Awards Shows
BRUCE VILANCH
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
KAY CANNON
(30 Rock, New Girl, Pitch Perfect)
Interview
CAROL KOLB
(The Onion, Community)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Choosing Headlines at The Onion
WILL TRACY
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
GABE DELAHAYE
(Videogum, This American Life, Funny or Die)
Interview
GLEN CHARLES
(Taxi, Cheers)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Finding an Agent for a TV-Writing Job
JOEL BEGLEITER
(UTA)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
MARC MARON
(WTF with Marc Maron, Maron, Conan, Late Show with David Letterman)
Interview
GEORGE SAUNDERS
(Pastoralia, In Persuasion Nation, Tenth of December)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
DAVE HILL
(The New York Times, This American Life, Tasteful Nudes)
Interview
TOM SCHARPLING
(The Best Show on WFMU, Monk)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Writing for Radio
BOB ELLIOTT
(Bob & Ray)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
AMY POEHLER
(Saturday Night Live, Parks and Recreation)
Interview
ROZ CHAST
(The New Yorker)
Interview
DANIEL CLOWES
(Ghost World, David Boring, Eightball, Wilson)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
ANTHONY JESELNIK
(Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, The Jeselnik Offensive)
Interview
ADAM RESNICK
(Late Night with David Letterman, Get a Life, Cabin Boy)
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
STEPHEN MERCHANT
(The Office, Extras, An Idiot Abroad, Hello Ladies)
Interview
DAN GUTERMAN
(The Onion, The Colbert Report, Community)
Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge: Working as a Hollywood Script Doctor
ALAN SPENCER
Pure, Hard-Core Advice
MIKE DICENZO
(The Onion, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon)
Interview
MEL BROOKS
(The Producers, Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein)
The late comedy writer Jerry Belson, a veteran of
The Dick Van Dyke Show
,
The Odd Couple
, and
The Drew Carey Show
, among other classic sitcoms, wrote a joke that became one of the most well known, and most retold, in the history of television. It’s from a 1973 episode of
The Odd Couple
:
“Never ASSUME. Because when you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME.”
The joke is undeniably great. But perhaps the best and most effective joke that Belson ever wrote—and he wrote untold thousands—is the inscription that he wanted engraved on his tombstone:
I DID IT THEIR WAY
In other words: Hollywood’s way. The executives’ way. The
wrong way
.
Belson’s tombstone epitaph never made it beyond the first-draft stage, but regardless, one would think that Belson had done it
his way
. Plenty of credits. Plenty of money. Plenty of respect from those within the industry. And yet, if there’s one motif evident in the lives of comedy writers, it’s the nagging feeling that one can never have it his or her own way. That a comedy writer must always genuflect to those with the power, with the money—those who deem themselves arbiters of What Is Funny.
Whether through executive negligence or creative bartering on the part of the writers, the most beloved comedies of our time have avoided this trap. When Monty Python created their four-season television series,
Flying Circus
, they did so with minimal help from the BBC. In fact, as one of the Pythons, Terry Jones, explains in this book, BBC executives were disinterested in the result—until they saw the final product. Then they came terribly close to erasing the entirety of Monty Python’s first season for the grand purpose of reusing the tapes to record more “serious” entertainment.
The creators of
The Simpsons
made it clear from the show’s inception that there would be no executive meddling. James L. Brooks, also interviewed in this book, declared, in essence,
Stay away from our jokes, and we will produce a show for the ages
. Actually, Brooks might have hired a lawyer to say as much in very clear legalese, rather than “in essence.” Whatever the case, Brooks saved the show and helped to create a classic.
The creators of the U.K. version of
The Office
, Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant, flew so low under the radar that by the time executives became even vaguely aware of what their money had wrought, it was too late. Due to this neglect, the show set an influential precedent for its combination documentary-style format and cringe-inducing humor.
It’s clear then: All great comedy has managed to circumnavigate executive meddling. But this is easier said than done.
Since at least the fifth century B.C., when the playwright Aristophanes needed the financial help of a
chorêgos
, or rich benefactor, to help stage his comedies, writers have had to rely on others. The creative have never been fully in control of the marketing and distribution of their creativity. Playwrights have needed sponsors and performance space. Screenwriters have required even wealthier sponsors than the playwrights: Hollywood production studios. Humor writers for print have needed the acceptance, and then distribution, provided by magazines and publishing houses. The keys to the kingdom have been controlled by the less creative.
Until now.
I cannot overstate that there has never been a better time for writers of comedy—or, for that matter, writers of
anything
. A twenty-one-year-old in her room in Oklahoma who writes hilarious jokes on Twitter is potentially just as important (or influential) as any professional comedy writer for
The New Yorker
. A teen making funny videos in his suburban garage can reach just as many people—certainly, just as many of the
right
people—than any director of a movie to be distributed by the large studios.
We are now all on equal ground. If you want to write comedy, you can. There’s no one to stop you. And there’s no one to tell you what to do. This can be bad. It’s far too easy to create sloppy, forgettable work. On the other hand, it’s no longer a requirement to work on
The Harvard Lampoon
to eventually earn a professional living writing jokes. That can only be a good thing.
It is also so much easier to communicate with our peers and mentors than ever before. We can access material in a few seconds and reach out to others almost instantly. I have fond memories of growing up in suburban Maryland, biking to the local library to look for inspiration, and staying up late to watch
Letterman
and whatever obscure, random shows that might air in the wee hours. I compiled dozens of files of clippings and took them with me when I went to college and everywhere else I eventually moved. Many of these clips were written by comedy writers; others were in-depth interviews with comedy writers. I pored over the mastheads of my favorite humor publications and the credits for the shows that I thought were the funniest. I occasionally wrote to these writers, seeking advice or attempting to sell jokes.
This book is really an extension of my youthful attempts to contact those in the business whom I admired most. If there is a common trait among those I chose to interview for this book, it’s that each of these writers has always done it his or her own way and no one else’s. Each came to this business primarily because he or she wanted to create the sort of comedy that they themselves enjoyed the most. For all of them—be they writers of sketches, graphic novels, screenplays,
New Yorker
cartoons, fiction, nonfiction, television, stand-up, the radio—success was a by-product, not the goal.
I am no humor expert; I don’t think anyone is. If something makes you laugh, it’s good. But if there is anything about which I am certain, it’s that we are now living in a comedic Golden Age.
Never before have there been as many comedy writers in the early stages of their careers producing the type of work that means the most to them and to others. By the time my five-year-old daughter reaches my age, most, if not all, of the young writers in this book will have already become the comedy legends of the next generation. Who are these writers? How did they choose this very odd profession? What do they want to accomplish? How exactly do they do what they do? And, perhaps most important,
why
? One of the reasons I wrote this book was to find out and to share what I learned with others who might find all this of interest, too.
Luckily, there also still exist a good number of elder statespersons of “classic” TV comedies, film, and radio. Soon this ratio will be tipped more toward the young, and a bridge to another time will no longer exist. This is another reason I decided to write this book. How do these older writers want to be remembered? How do they think they changed the industry? Who influenced
them
? I feel lucky to have been able to connect with these older comedy writers, some of whom have not been interviewed in many years or at all.
The writers in this book have played major parts in everything from creating what’s been called the first-ever sitcom to coining the term “black humor” to writing for Monty Python,
Cheers
,
The Office
(both the U.K. and U.S. versions),
Saturday Night Live
,
The Daily Show
,
The Onion
,
The Colbert Report
,
Parks and Recreation
,
National Lampoon
,
The New Yorker
,
Seinfeld
,
Mr. Show
,
Bob’s Burgers
,
30 Rock
,
Anchorman
,
Juno
,
Ghost World
,
Get a Life
,
Cabin Boy
,
Late Night
,
Late Show with David Letterman
, the
Tonight Show
, and more. A writer or two may have even written the jokes you read this very morning online.
Interspersed throughout this book, between the fifteen full-length interviews, are “Ultraspecific Comedic Knowledge” and “Pure, Hard-Core Advice.” The former includes specialized materials and information that might appeal to the comedy geek. “Pure, Hard-Core Advice,” as you may have guessed, contains straight advice—no muss, no fuss—from successful comedy writers or those within the industry, such as agents, that might prove helpful to writers just starting out or for those writers wanting to improve their standing in the industry.
If you’re not familiar with some (or even most) of these writers, I hope that you will find them as interesting as I do and seek out their work. If you
are
familiar with these writers, I hope you might learn something new about their writing, their careers, their lives—and their humor.
As E. B. White once wrote for
The New Yorker
: “Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process and the innards are discouraging to any but the pure scientific mind. . . . [Humor] won’t stand much poking. It has a certain fragility, an evasiveness, which one had best respect.” This bit of wisdom is often misquoted or, at least, cut short, with the second half making no appearance. Yes, it’s true that the poor frog dies (and as the owner of five dearly departed African clawed water frogs, this strikes particularly close to home). But the crux is that the process can be fascinating to a certain type of person.
Not the type who wants comedy dissected to the point of death, necessarily, but the type interested in understanding the art and business behind comedy; of what it takes, exactly, to make a career out of attempting to induce laughter from complete strangers with only the words or images that you create. It is a fragile art. And as you will read here, it is a tough, yet fascinating life. These are writers who do it their way (and always have), and the rest of us, as well as the world of comedy, are much better off for their efforts.
—MIKE SACKS
