What Will It Take to Make A Woman President?: Conversations About Women, Leadership and Power (22 page)

GN
: Your question is a good one. Why is it that men can’t be recognized for being outstanding advocates for women? You don’t need to be gay to be a great advocate for the LGBT community. In every aspect of life, you can maintain your empathy and your advocacy. So I think you’re seeing that, and I think it’s a great thing. I think people are realizing that we’re not two separate tribes, we’re all in this together, and that men have a responsibility to be advocates for women, women advocates for men and boys. So in this case, we have a lot more to do to support women in leadership positions and women have a lot more to achieve in that respect, so it’s right to prioritize that. Men cannot be let off the hook in terms of that advocacy. Nor can young boys. So I think you’re going to see a lot more of that advocacy, because you make the point fundamentally in terms of the interdependence. These issues are not isolated issues. Women’s issues are fundamental issues to
all
of our lives and they’re not wholly unique and distinctive. Women’s issues just basically become family issues, and family issues, especially with pay equity, become issues that affect all of us in society.

MS
: What type of leaders do you think we need today, either male or female? What do you think are the ingredients to successful leadership that the world needs right now?

GN
: We need courage, we need conviction, we need people that are willing to risk their comfort, risk their status, risk potential reward to stand firmly on the foundation of whatever principle they believe in. At the same time, always remembering that none of us have exclusivity to the truth or exclusivity to what’s right; we have to maintain a willingness to reach out and engage those that disagree with us and maintain an openness to argument. The most difficult thing is the rigidity of those that are ideological on both sides of the aisle and are unwilling to break with their dogma. So I think real leadership requires people to be willing to listen to different points of view and to form whatever opinion the facts can persuade them to form.

MS
: What advice or words of wisdom would you have for someone, a woman or a man, who is considering pursuing a career in public service or running for office?

GN
: Two points: One, in every respect I want to encourage and support people in leadership positions. Two, I think it’s important to remind everyone there are two paths. And you can argue that one is not necessarily superior to the other—that is, in your book the premise is formal authority, being president, being elected into a position of influence and power. But one can make a legitimate argument that that may not necessarily be the most influential place to be. There are two points of authority, and that’s moral versus formal authority. When you think about guys like Vàclav Havel or Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., or Gandhi, people like Mandela, you can argue that at the peak of their influence when they had the most impact in the world and in their countries, they shared two things in common:
one was jail time, and two was that none of them had formal authority at the peak of their influence. You can make a very good case that when Mandela became president for his one term and Vàclav Havel—Havel made this case when he was president, as well—that they lost a little bit of their authority, even though they became presidents of their respective countries, because their voices were so much more powerful when they were exercised autonomously from the formal connections within governing organizations, with all of those rules and regulations and all of the limitations and formal laws of governing. So for me, leadership is not about being something in order to do something. And I think it’s incredibly important for women to recognize that you don’t need to be president, you don’t need to be governor, you don’t need to be mayor, you don’t even need to be in elected office to be a leader and aspire to influence. I mean, what’s the purpose of leadership? It’s to move people to a cause greater than themselves and to have an impact that transcends. You can manifest that in so many different ways; you don’t have to limit yourself to formal authority. So as important as it is to be a mayor, a governor, a president, whatever it may be, one could argue that it may not be the apex of leadership, that there are other ways to truly change the world that perhaps have even more meaning and impact. And so I just hope we encourage our young girls to aspire to that consideration and not just to the limited consideration of a formal role in society.

MS
: This relates to your new book,
Citizenville
. I think sometimes people feel very disconnected about what’s happening in our government. Many times people don’t realize or even utilize the power that we all have, even as citizens. What advice and encouragement would you offer on just becoming an active, informed citizen?

GN
: Well, you’ve got it. I mean, in so many ways, to pull from what I was just arguing, something profound is happening. I’m just noticing book
after book coming out week after week, and there’s a new narrative being formed about what technology is fundamentally doing, and that’s decentralizing power. It’s devolving the power and it allows more involvement and allows democratization of information and voices. And that is profound. It’s the old pyramid that is now being flipped upside down, where the people are on top and those that traditionally have been in those formal roles of authority are on the bottom. So that’s the leveling impact of technology and this notion that I talk about in the book that small is getting big and big is getting small. Now we have such a powerful tool in our pocket, in our hands, that we never could have imagined five, ten, fifteen years ago, that allows us to participate and to connect and to influence in ways we never could have imagined. So my whole book is about active citizen engagement. It’s about stepping up and stepping in. It’s about leaning in and participating and making the case that every one of our voices matter and that every one of our expressions is unique. So all of these things fit nicely into the larger schematic of gender equality and provide new points of access and tools, certainly for women and girls to connect. In many ways—and this is the long-winded point—I see these technologies fitting nicely, and perhaps more seamlessly, into the hands of women and girls that naturally are forming more connections, that are building more relationships. And the tools of technology amplify that. I just think women have the profound advantage in this hyper-connected world to [utilize] these new platforms that are forming to truly empower and to organize. Again, this is not my crystal ball, but the trend lines are extraordinarily pivotal for women and girls in every respect.

MS
: I remember in
Miss Representation
, you said this line and it was shocking to hear: “If more people knew that Cuba, China, Iraq, and Afghanistan have more women in government than the United States of America, that
would get some people upset.” Why do you think the United States is lagging behind other countries on this?

GN
: There’s obviously historical context and the issues of the equal rights movement and the challenges that remain, like pay equity and the limitations in terms of national public policy, state and local policy as it relates to celebrating families and engendering a rational policy to support families and to support women as the dominant caregivers within those families—all of those things have created limitations by definition and need to be reconciled. I think the greatest inhibitor—it’s a little simplistic, and I acknowledge the simplicity—but the greatest inhibitor for women and girls are men, by definition. There is selfishness, and I’ve experienced it with my wife, in terms of my expectations from her, particularly with our newborns, to spend the amount of time that I think she needs to spend with them versus the amount of time that I feel I need to spend with them. It’s not a source of friction because we’ve sort of figured it out, but I’m starting to recognize the unfairness of my wife sitting there breastfeeding and having to be up every few hours. And the luxury that I have of not having to breastfeed and not being up every few hours, that connection she has in those early months, those early few years that is formed as a consequence. My connection is there, but with more independence, more latitude, more ability to navigate my professional life and career versus my wife’s. I just think, in particular for young mothers, it remains a vexing and challenging issue. And public policy needs to catch up. When I was mayor, we were the only city in America with paid sick leave. We had universal healthcare well before the Affordable Care Act. We tried to do those things from a policy perspective, but at the end of the day, they’re still not good enough. They remain huge issues and, of course, issues of pay equity, that’s just disgraceful.

My final point is the point you were making. We’re an enlightened country and at the same time remarkably naïve for the world we’re living in. I literally have to send back-up information—I get in these, hardly fights, but in these arguments with people that don’t believe me when I make the case, as I made in Jen’s film
Miss Representation
, as it relates to representation in legislative bodies and executive bodies for women in countries that so many of us feel are oppressive, where women have a much stronger voice in the orbit of affairs of state. It’s incredibly important to remind people how far we’ve come and how far we need to go. Just because Nancy Pelosi was Speaker and just because I’m out in a state with two women that are senators, doesn’t mean that this state has achieved the pinnacle of gender equality. Particularly in the legislature, not dissimilar to Congress, they actually lost more seats than they gained for women. We continue to struggle—and I think you’ve noted this in some of your work—even more dismally at the local level with encouraging women. And when women run, they win. It’s not just a question of convincing more women of a career in politics. And many are smart just to say, “Why would I ever want to?” And so I don’t think it’s to be critiqued when a woman says, “It’s not for me.” Again, there are so many other ways to contribute and to lead and to change the world. You don’t have to be in elected office, though it remains powerfully important and we need to encourage more.

MS
: I feel like there are a lot of changing paradigms—look what’s happening around gay marriage, and we have elected an African American president for the second time, and there’s a historic number of women serving in Congress. What shifts do you see happening that encourage you? Do you feel like there are some new paradigms that are being born?

GN
: I think the most profound is this ’Net generation, this millennial generation. It’s the first global generation, the most empathetic and connected
generation in history, people thirty and younger. And again, I think it’s a generation that forms less distinction and more connection. It’s a generation that is more civically minded. It’s the most educated generation. . . . And there’s a recognition that we don’t just tolerate diversity, that we celebrate it. I see that generational shift and generational attitudes, less defined by Democrat/Republican, there’s a different diversity that’s being formed, and I just think that it’s going to bode extraordinarily well and very favorably toward the shift to gender equality and advancing the rights of women and girls. So I’m with you on the optimism. And again, there’s a demographic shift in this country taking shape, and when you twin the demographic shift with these tools of technology—you merge IT and the demographic changes and the globalization—that is something that we’ve never experienced in human history and the rate of change is exponential and so, on this one, fasten your seat belts. I mean, I don’t think we’re looking at the traditional trajectory of change, as it relates to empathy and understanding and capacity building that we’ve seen in the past. I think that change is going to be much more acute and much more intense. So I don’t want to be Pollyannaish about this, or naïve, but I really feel there is a tsunami here and in the future . . . I remain extraordinarily optimistic about it.

NANCY PELOSI

“It’s about equality, but it’s not just about equality. And the reason it’s necessary to have more voices is because that strengthens the debate and it strengthens the decisions. It isn’t that women coming in are better than men; they’re different from men. And I always say the beauty is in the mix. To have diversity of opinion in the debate strengthens the outcome and you get a better result.”

N
ANCY
P
ELOSI, THE
Democratic leader of the U.S. House of Representatives for the 113th Congress, is focused on strengthening America’s middle class and creating jobs, reforming the political system to create clean campaigns and fair elections, enacting comprehensive immigration reform, and ensuring safety in America’s communities, neighborhoods, and schools. From 2007 to 2011, Pelosi served as Speaker of the House, the first woman to do so in American history.

For twenty-five years, Pelosi has represented San Francisco, California’s 12th District, in Congress. She first made history when House Democrats elected her the first woman to lead a major political party. She has led House Democrats for a decade and previously served as House Democratic Whip.

Under the leadership of Pelosi, the 111th Congress was heralded as “one of the most productive Congresses in history” by congressional scholar Norman Ornstein. President Barack Obama called Speaker Pelosi
“an extraordinary leader for the American people,” and the
Christian Science Monitor
wrote: “Make no mistake: Nancy Pelosi is the most powerful woman in American politics and the most powerful House Speaker since Sam Rayburn a half century ago.”

Pelosi brings to her leadership position a distinguished record of legislative accomplishment. She led Congress in passing historic health insurance reform, key investments in college aid, clean energy and innovation, and initiatives to help small businesses and veterans. She has been a powerful voice for civil rights and human rights around the world for decades. Pelosi comes from strong family tradition of public service in Baltimore. Married to Paul Pelosi, she is a mother of five and grandmother of nine.