The Iceman: The Rise and Fall of a Crime Lord (20 page)

No, I only met Danny that time up at the place in Larkhall.

So what happened?

I done a couple of runs for him.

Can you remember any of the other dates you were stopped by Customs on bona fide runs?

January 2003 as well.

Can you remember the details of the vehicle you were driving?

It was a Dutch plate, Scania S40, two numbers and thirty-four and another two numbers. A silver Scania . . . sorry two letters, thirty-four and then another two letters.

How many times do you think you got stopped by the Customs driving that vehicle?

Three times altogether – twice at Dover and once at Portsmouth.

Were you stopped any other times by police officers on the motorways or anything?

No, I was never stopped by the police.

So you’ve done a few bona fide runs for Danny, who was introduced to you by Frank Gallagher. What happened then?

They decided I wasn’t suitable for driving that lorry ’cos, every time I came back into the country, Customs and Excise were taking it apart. They didn’t know if it was the lorry or myself but they said they wouldn’t give me any work.

Who told you this?

Frank told me this before. A couple of weeks after that, Danny rang me to meet him at Carlisle truck stop and asked me to go on a run with him to Holland. When he got down to Carlisle to meet me, he said he wasn’t going to go. They stopped him at Bothwell services.

Who stopped him?

Frank and the J fella. He actually said there were four of them. They stopped him and put a gun to him and told him, if I would be in his lorry, they’d shoot him.

Danny told you about this?

Yes, he met me at the truck stop in Carlisle. He was quite shaken.

Did he say who it was that put the gun to him?

He didn’t say. He said there were four of them there and they jumped into the cab with him.

You don’t recall who the antagonist was? Who was taking the lead role?

No, he didn’t say. He just said the J guy was there, Frank was there and two other thugs.

What happened thereafter?

That was the last time I heard of Danny. I done a couple of weeks in early 2003 for a local firm in Girvan. That was just local work – nothing to do with drugs. I sold the hotel and then Kelly’s Flowers rang me and asked if I was interested in doing a run with them.

Who was that from Kelly’s Flowers, Robert?

Ken Munro, he’s the transport manager. [There is nothing to suggest that Mr Munro was aware of McDowall’s smuggling.]

Was that a bona fide run you were going to do?

Yes.

Where would Ken Munro have got your details from?

From my friend back in Ireland. I had done one run for them previous – just a one-off run for them.

For who?

For Kelly’s.

A bona fide run? A bona fide run, yes. A run over to the Breskens. A run over to the Breskens [a coastal town in Holland], drop it off and bring fruit back for them.

Can I just jump back slightly, Robert? The Danny guy – what do you know about his background?

What I know is Danny has, over a period, brought drugs into the country for this crowd.

For who?

For Jamie and Gallagher and they actually financed the purchase of the lorry.

The lorry that was used?

The Scania.

This being the same lorry that Danny was threatened in?

Yes.

So they financed that. How do you know that?

Danny told me.

What did he say?

Well, he’d actually gone bankrupt. He’d been in business and went bust and part of the deal was that he would bring some stuff in for them. They bought him . . . they actually had two lorries and bought him the two lorries and set him back up in business. It’s an amalgamation of different transport companies operating under an operator’s licence of a Dutch company, hence the Dutch registration.

So what you’re saying is that Danny’s brought drugs in for Jamie and Frank Gallagher and that it was Danny that told you that?

Yeah.

Was there ever any quantities involved?

He never mentioned any quantities but he said there were fantastic amounts of money for doing it and he also said he transported drugs from Spain up to Holland.

Did he ever mention what type of drugs?

No.

When you say fantastic amounts of money, did he ever actually give you a figure?

He was talking hundreds of thousands.

So Danny volunteered this information to you?

Yes, ’cos I went along on a couple of runs with him and he had told me. He also had another driver. He was sitting down in Valencia one time waiting to bring some stuff up and he kept him waiting there for a fortnight just so he could bring some drugs up from Spain to Holland for him. I’ve heard talking on the phone a couple of times and he said just hang out there for a few more days. Book yourself into a hotel or whatever and it will come up shortly.

Who do you think Danny was waiting instruction from?

I would say Jamie.

Did he tell you at any time he was waiting instruction from Jamie?

No. He said he was waiting on a load but no one waits in Spain for a legitimate load. I mean, there’s a big shortage of transport all around the continent and back and forth. You don’t wait two weeks for anybody.

OK. Let’s get back to yourself. You made a few genuine runs then the incident with Danny. What happened then?

I spoke to Danny that day – the day in the truck stop in Carlisle – and he said to me, ‘Just let it go for a couple of weeks and I’ll give you work over in the continent so you can bring stuff up from Spain to Holland for me. I do it all the time.’

You’re talking about stuff there. You are talking about drugs?

Drugs, yes. We call it stuff, kit or gear.

Carry on, Robert.

That’s the last I heard from Danny until I was working for the local firm in Girvan. He just rang me out of the blue and asked me if I could do a run that Saturday night for him.

Who rang you out of the blue?

Danny. He rang me on my mobile. He wanted me to do a fish run that Saturday night. It was a legitimate run.

What date?

Probably April or May 2003. I said no, I’m working and I’m away for two weeks. The way it worked, you go out for three weeks for them or six weeks and then take a fortnight off or something. They give you the time off when you’re with the lorry. You get parked up for thirty-six hours or forty-eight hours or something but you’re never back up in Scotland. It’s always down in England and I said, ‘Look, I’m here until they bring me back.’ They had asked me to work full-time with them which I’m sorry I didn’t do ’cos I would never have got involved in this. But that’s water under the bridge.

So he’s asked you to do one run and you’ve said no?

Yes. That was the last time I heard from Danny.

OK. What was your next communication with these individuals?

Right. Kelly’s had rang me and I did a few legitimate runs for Kelly’s. The way it worked with Kelly’s was I went out every Saturday night, they sent the lorry over on the ferry from Belfast. I picked it up from Stranraer, drove on down to Dover, crossed over at Dover, up into Breskens in Holland, which is just at the Dutch/Belgian border, just over the border, dumped the fish off there and that was generally me finished until Monday. I’d collect flowers and fruit for Kelly’s from three different pick-up points in Holland.

All bona fide stuff?

Yes, all bona fide stuff.

OK. What happened then?

There was one run . . . I was contacted by my friend in Ireland. He said would you be interested in bringing some of that stuff back. He gave me the details of where to meet and he said Frank or J would be in touch with me and on to Holland. He seemed to know where it was the whole time. When I got closer to Rijnsburg, they rang to see sort of what time I’d be.

Sorry to interrupt you – who rang you?

It was J. Mostly it was J who called me.

Can you tell us roughly what date that was?

First week in May 2003.

So we get this correct, your friend, who you don’t want to name, phones you and tells you he wants you to bring some stuff back?

I was doing runs for the weeks before that and he knew I was going out on the Saturday night.

What vehicle were you in then?

In the DAF – Kelly’s DAF. Can’t think of the registration number. It was a DAF. It’s the only DAF that Kelly’s have.

So you don’t know the registration?

If I could get back to my tachos sometime, I could dig the number out. It wouldn’t be hard to find the number. It’s the only DAF Kelly’s have.

So your friend – what details did he give you?

He just told me to carry on with the run and I’d be contacted when I was in Holland. They had a rough idea what times I’d be ’cos he had worked for Kelly’s before.

So you were doing a bona fide run at that time?

Yes. I dropped the fish in Breskens. I had some more to drop off but, Jesus Christ, I can’t remember the names of these places in Holland. I had another drop-off to do and I went over to Rijnsburg and that’s when they put the stuff on before I started loading the fruit.

Who told you to go to Rijnsburg?

My mate from Ireland.

And were you communicated by people when you were over there?

Yes.

What phone did they phone you on?

They phoned me on the Siemens A55.

Always?

Yes. That was the number I had at the time that had the chip in it.

So who phoned you?

J.

Where was he phoning you from?

Scotland.

You sure about that?

Nearly sure – I couldn’t say 100 per cent.

So the number he phoned you on will be on your phone somewhere possibly?

If the chip . . . the telephone has a memory. I’ve changed the chip since. Actually changed the chip on the way home that time.

You changed the SIM card so, unless it’s on the memory, it’s gone?

Yes.

So what did he say to you on the phone?

He just said what time will you be at Rijnsburg at? I told him the time and it was the Sunday. I wasn’t starting to load the fruit until Monday. So I went up and sat on the road from the garage, filled up with fuel. And the guy pulled up in a Golf GTi with Dutch plates on.

Where exactly were you sitting?

I was sitting on the main road into the village of Rijnsburg.

Who directed you to that position?

Right, I knew where it was. I knew what the position was ’cos it had been explained to me before and it was close to where Kelly’s Flowers is in Rijnsburg.

How far from Kelly’s is it?

Quarter of a mile.

So it’s actually a road. You sat on the road?

Yes, a main road.

What I’m trying to get to is who told you to go to that specific location?

J.

He phoned you and told you to go there?

Well, he phoned and said, ‘Do you know exactly where you’re going?’ I said, ‘Yes in Rijnsburg.’

Did he tell you what time to be there at?

I told him what time I’d be there at and he said just park there and there will be someone along in a few minutes of you arriving, which there was.

What time was that at? Was it night?

No. It was a Sunday afternoon.

So you park up. J told you there would be someone there in a few minutes?

Yes.

What happens?

A Golf GTi, black with Dutch plates, pulled in and a coloured guy – I’ve actually remembered his name, the nickname. It was Tony the Moroccan – that’s what his name was. He handed the five boxes into me and I kept them in the cab of the DAF.

In the cab?

Yeah.

How long did this exchange take? Minutes?