Secret and Suppressed: Banned Ideas and Hidden History (54 page)

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Did they act on this?

Yes. I had another meeting — you have copies of notes from that meeting. The first man I spoke to was a P. I believe he is now working for Dean Witter/Reynolds, which is another example of fronts controlling a corporation nominally, but it goes back and back. Dean Witter/Reynolds is supposed to be an American corporation. In fact the principal controlling interest is Arab, and they are in turn controlled by the Germans. It’s not in the financial reports, but they are owners of record.

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Which Arabs are we talking about?

Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. They’re the two principal ones.

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Then you’re saying that Arab control, where it shows up, is German control? That Otto and his people are behind that?

Yes, and it has been German control since before the war, even.

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Why do the Saudis and Kuwaitis, who have a great deal of money from their oil, why do they…

They offer them a false sense of security. The Arabs have a great fear for security, physically, for their positions. I use the term Arab not just to say Saudi Arabia, but Kuwait, Oman, Quatar, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, these various little potentates. The rulers of the country now, 40 years ago were young men, boys. At that time their education, their beliefs, were very carefully cultivated, knowing that one day they would be in power. The Organization doesn’t plan for what they’re going to do tomorrow, they plan for the turn of the century, at this point. It’s a continuing thing. It’s not “Get all we can and skip with it.” They want to have permanent effective control, so they’ve taken this time. It’s amazing. The most powerful opposition to the German control of the Arabs is coming from the British, not the Americans. The Americans seem to be pretty content that they control things themselves, but they don’t.

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Let’s get back to your personal involvement
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were you being paid by Otto for the work you were doing?

My payment is knowing what’s going to happen in the business world, and acting on it.

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And what year are we talking about?

‘73, ‘74.

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And during this six months, what is your function?

To keep track of what’s available. To go through contacts, so when the trader says, “I think we’re going to have about 50,000 shares, because someone is about ready to sell,” I know that and place the word through the Swiss Bank Corporation, and when it’s available, they’re there to buy through intermediaries.

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During this time, were you doing other things for the Organization?

Basically, just passing on financial information. Texaco, Pan American. One that was very good was Allied Artists. That was a case of getting them to go bankrupt, to take over its assets. The last movie they made,
The Wild Geese,
was the one that did it to them. The movie was done for about two million dollars. Allied Artists — they’re very good in a financial sense, they own a lot of monster-type movies from the ‘50’s. They have the rights to most of those. Then once the assets were purchased, they’d be sold. In other words, they picked the company clean.

I had been requested by Otto, during ‘78 — they were making preparations for control of the gold market, that’s the big rush that came in the latter part of ‘79 — and I started to get information about gold stocks and the commodity of gold, to watch for movement. I contacted D., and the suggestion was about Rustenberg. Another was Troy Gold Industries. These could be picked up for nickels and dimes. The gold market was very stable. The big rush that was expected when Americans could own gold again never came. That worked very well for the Organization, so when I suggested Rustenberg as a relatively obscure thing on the precious metals markets, because when gold moves, silver and platinum move, pretty much in proportion.

— You’ve just moved from 1971 to 1973 to 1978 and ‘79…

I was going to go to ‘75 now. At that time, Otto was generally concerned. He felt that it was time to leave. So he called me back… I had called him and he called me back and told me that he was going to be out of town — that meant he was going to Germany. He usually wouldn’t go to Paris. Could we arrange to meet as soon as possible, because there were some things he wanted to discuss with me. When he was in Germany, he sent me a telegram, which I have a copy of — I don’t go near the originals, that’s part of my safety. He told me that it was time to leave. He said, “Now, this is just between you and me. Even the Organization doesn’t know I’m talking to you like this.”

We had the meeting and went out. There’s a restaurant in Madrid called Horcher’s. It was the darling of the Nazi set in Berlin during the war, very luxurious. When the war ended they just picked up bag and baggage, the whole family, moved to Madrid, to be close to their customers. When he walked in — Boom! Served you like you’ve never seen before. This was very interesting that he was out in the open like this, but he was obviously very agitated about something, and wanted to explain to me that he had to leave. I wasn’t to get in contact with him, he’d get in touch with me. We had by that time set up mail drops, contact points, and some of these places that I have here in Sacramento, I can’t stand. They really drive me up the wall. One place, I really have a block about this place. On the outskirts of downtown; it’s a queer steambath. A hell of a place to have a meeting. I honestly think that Otto likes to see people squirm.

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So, you went to Horcher’s.

Yes, and he told me not to contact him, he would contact me. I would normally go into, say, E.’s place [a mail drop] quite often. I haven’t been there for about a year, now. After he left, I’d gone in there and would have been contacted, normally. He, E., knows where I am most of the time. Sometimes he doesn’t know and is not supposed to know: better security, so there can be no leaks from his side. People within the Organization know I work for them, but in what capacity, they’re really not all that sure. That’s the way Otto prefers it to be, and the way I prefer it.

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How long was it before he got in touch with you?

Maybe December ‘75. He got in touch again about August of ‘77.

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About a year and a half. During this time you continued with your reports?

Yes, that was why we had the meeting. He told me, “You’re not supposed to know.” So when things happened [Skorzeny’s reported death] I was greatly shocked by it. I sent the standard telegram to his widow, and you saw the reply. [Printed card of thanks with painting of Skorzeny.] That was his way of letting me know everything was alright, particularly with the photograph.

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Are there ways to prove he’s alive short of inviting retribution and death? Something a bit less dramatic?

Well, there’s that photograph I told you about, of Otto standing in front of the memorial painting which was commissioned after his “death.”

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During that 18 months, you continued doing Organization business?

It wasn’t orders for Organization business. He knew — he still knows, that I, through my contacts, was able to know what’s going on in the business world. Particularly with the Dillingham thing, what developed through contacts there in Hawaii was the fact about Ariyoshi [Governor of Hawaii] being on the take. It was very helpful to know that.

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In March ‘75, Otto said, “Hang on, because the reports of my death will be somewhat exaggerated,” and in December of ‘75 he got in touch with you again. You got a message?

I had gone into E.’s place, and E. was mentioning that someone was trying to get in touch with me. I knew who that was and I knew how to get down. He had told me in our meeting where he was going. He’d said, “This is the time to get out.” I found out later, through normal conversations, that he had gone to Denia, to stay with his friend, who operated a summer camp, something on the Mediterranean.

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Tell me how you got there, and where, in fact, there is.

It’s in the north part of Paraguay, the compound. There are a number of ways it can be reached. Get a car, drive down to Mexico, chartering a plane in Mazatlan to Cancun, in Merida. Ostensibly for a rich man’s vacation, fishing and all that. You rent a room and keep it, and you keep it for a few weeks, even though you’re not there for more than a few days. You establish a pattern that you’re out fishing or bumming around, and meanwhile another plane has been chartered to take you from Cancun to Panama City. From Panama City, a plane that will take you the rest of the way, very long range to Asuncion. A plane of the Organization would meet me, yellow and brown twin Cessna, to [take me to] the airstrip that they have. None of this time would normal papers be necessary, so there would be no records or identification on anybody.

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Are there other ways into the compound area?

None.

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About how far is it?

A twin Cessna will go about 225, 250, and the flight was maybe an hour and a half. I’m not saying they went top speed. I was sitting in the back so I wouldn’t know. I do a bit of flying, but at that time, I didn’t think it was wise to stick my head up there and say, “What’s the speed here? What’s your heading?”

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You were heading North from Asuncion?

Northwest, actually.

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What happens once you get to the airstrip?

You get taken up to the house. Well, how do you do, shake hands — Oh, God, when he shakes hands. The guy’s a monster. Obviously I don’t have a muscleman’s hand, but it certainly isn’t what you would call tiny and dainty, but he can just engulf it. Takes both hands in the shaking. He’s big [indicates with his hand above his head]. I’m six feet so he must be six foot six or something like that. Huge great man with meathook hands.

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Was he the only one there?

There were security people in the area. Friends, how do you do, fine, let’s have dinner, talk about — usually when there are groups of people, friendly patter. One would not give names, real names, but you talk about things that are… I mean, really!

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Talk about your crimes?

That’s basically what would be done. He asked me about how I first learned about his demise. He wanted the information I had on some of the companies we discussed, and I told him, at that time I had much firmer contacts in Hawaii, about [the governor] and that he could be bought — standard contract. It’s amazing how you can talk about these things, matter-of-factly. [The governor], his fee is about $10,000 if you want something done. Somebody you want into the state or somebody out of the state with no trouble, or if you want to conduct business in the state, $10,000 to [the governor] and a sliding scale minimum $8-10,000 for the union, and you can conduct business there. They wanted to develop Hawaii on a long-range basis, inter-island transport, through the air. The principal ones there were Hawaiian Airlines and Aloha Airlines, but also charter airlines, which is good for the Organization when they want to move people around quietly through charters. They developed charters. They were having competition with the hydrofoil. I had mentioned to him the hydrofoil was Boeing, and gave him a list of people involved in operating it and best to be dealt with. I wouldn’t deal with them.

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You were talking to Otto about developing Hawaii as a base?

Right. And it is being developed very well. I hate to go there.

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Okay, what else was going on during that visit?

I mentioned I’d get back to him next time regarding Consolidated Oil & Gas there. It’s these American businessmen — it’s a listed corporation on the American Stock Exchange — that control Princeville. I said they’re hurting for money now. They’d been developing for about five to six years, and it took a little more than even they had. I suggested that as a possibility in the future, said I’ll look into it for you. That was basically it. That went over two to three days.

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You were talking about the compound in Paraguay. You said it was about a dozen buildings. Could you describe the place? For example, starting with the airstrip.

The airstrip is not a paved way. It’s unpaved and well camouflaged, but the camouflage is removed for landing. It’s certainly large enough for a twin Cessna fully loaded to land and take off, once the camouflage and obstructions have been removed. You can say 5-6000 feet, approximately.

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Does a Cessna need that much?

Fully loaded, it would. If they’re having shipments come in, they would. I’ll give you an example; one time they had a safe brought in, a very large safe. It was brought in on a DC-6, which was a hell of a time, trying to get the damn thing off the plane.