Conversations with Myself (23 page)

KATHRADA: Ja.

MANDELA: Because we were inside the…building, in the lounge.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: And I said, ‘No, no, no, no, no. I don’t want to consider that. I’m negotiating, you see. Perhaps if, some other time if I was not engaged in negotiations, I could think about it. Not now!’ And I was
very
abrupt.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: Then they said, ‘Well, what about 750,000?’ I said, ‘You can give me 750
million.’

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: I won’t take it. So I just turned it down. And
then
when I was at the, what-you-call, at the clinic,
another
one. This one was a million.

KATHRADA: Ja. That was
Time
magazine, I think.

MANDELA: Ah, I think you’re right.

KATHRADA: Ja.

MANDELA: Yes. So I refused, and poor, you know, to be poor is a terrible thing.

KATHRADA: No, I have also written about that when you suffer deprivation in jail.

MANDELA: Yes.

KATHRADA: You are tempted…

MANDELA: That’s right.

KATHRADA:…by
many
things.

MANDELA: Absolutely.

KATHRADA: Ja.

MANDELA: Absolutely. Even, you know, outside, you know, just have to
get
the habit, you know, of going to
report
to your fellows, when you have been offered something.

21. FROM A LETTER TO NURSE SISTER SHAUNA BRADLEY, DATED 21 AUGUST 1989
¹⁸

One morning I listened to a radio sermon in which the preacher was giving advice on how to face problems. He pointed out that troubles are always of a temporary nature and that, depending on a person’s approach, they are often followed by happier moments.

22. CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL

STENGEL: People say, ‘Nelson Mandela’s great problem is that he’s too willing to see the good in other people.’ How do you respond to that?

MANDELA: Well that’s what many people say. That has been said right from my adolescence and I don’t know…There may be an element of truth in that. But when you are a public figure you have to accept the integrity of other people until there is evidence to the contrary. And when you have no evidence to the contrary, and people do things which appear to be good, what reason have you got to suspect them? To say that they are doing good because they have got an ulterior motive? It is until that evidence comes out that you then either deal with that point, with that instance of infidelity, and forget about it. Because that’s how you can get on in life with people. You have to recognise that people are produced by the mud in the society in which you live and that therefore they are human beings. They have got good points, they have got weak points. Your duty is to work with human beings as human beings, not because you think they are angels. And, therefore, once you know that this man has got this virtue and he has got this weakness you work with them and you accommodate that weakness and you try and help him to overcome that weakness. I don’t want to be frightened by the fact that a person has made certain mistakes and he has got human frailties. I can’t allow myself to be influenced by that. And that is why many people criticise [me].

And then in a position which I hold, your main task is to keep different factions together and therefore you must listen very carefully when somebody comes to explain a problem to you, the difficulty of working with others. But you, at the same time, you must, whilst listening and addressing that problem, realise that the
dominating
factor is that you must keep the organisation together. You can’t divide the organisation. People must be able to come to you…so that you can exercise the role of keeping the organisation together.

23. FROM A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL

People will feel I see too much good in people. So it’s a criticism I have to put up with and I’ve tried to adjust to, because whether it is so or not, it is something which I think is profitable. It’s a good thing to assume, to act on the basis that…others are men of integrity and honour…because you tend to attract integrity and honour if that is how you regard those with whom you work. And one has made a great deal of progress in developing personal relationships because you [make] the basic assumption…that those you deal with are men of integrity. I believe in that.

.....................................................................................

An entry from a desk calendar in which Mandela notes that on 21 July 1976 there was a ‘Raid’.

Mandela kept a series of desk calendars on Robben Island and in Pollsmoor and Victor Verster prisons, which run from 1976 to 1989. Together with the notebooks, they are the most direct and unmediated records of his private thoughts and everyday experiences. He did not make entries every day. In fact, there are sometimes weeks where he made none at all, which explains some of the gaps in dates that appear in the selection that makes up chapter 11. Of the entries that do exist, the most important and most interesting have been brought together in this chapter. Even though these entries represent a small percentage of the total, the overall tenor of the calendars has not been altered substantially. The inclusion of some entries may seem strange. It should be borne in mind, however, that taken-for-granted necessities in the outside world were actually precious luxuries in prison. Milk for tea, for example, was an
event
. So, too, were visits and letters. And the single word ‘Raid’ masks a deeper menace.

18 AUGUST 1976

Received information on arrest of Zami.

C.O. [Commanding Officer] denies that birthday card came

23 AUGUST 1976

Informed by W/O [Warrant Officer] Barnard that birthday card withheld

8 DECEMBER 1976

Begin reading ‘Bury my heart’ Dee Brown: sent letter U[niversity of] London
¹

23 DECEMBER 1976

Zindzi’s birthday

17 JANUARY 1977

Gossiping about others is certainly a vice, a virtue when about oneself.

20 JANUARY 1977

Dreamt of Kgatho falling into ditch and injuring leg

21 FEBRUARY 1977

Raid by approximately 15 warders under W/O Barnard

2 MARCH 1977

Heavy tremor at 6.55 am
²

25 MARCH 1977

Dreamt of Kgatho, George, I and others racing up a field with green crop and coming down a hill at full gallop. Kgatho falls and is assisted. I wake up as I run to him.

25 APRIL 1977

Journalists, photographers and TV representatives visit island and take photographs of prisoners’ cells and buildings
³

4 JUNE 1977

Zami and Zindzi see me for 1½ hrs. Advise that deportation to Brandfort occurred on 16.5.77
⁴

11 JULY 1977

Razor blade

22 AUGUST 1977

Letter re shaving cream and 2 cold creams handed in

7 NOVEMBER 1977

Major Zandburg advises that K.D. [Kaiser Matanzima] wishes to visit Madiba [himself] on 2.12.77. Madiba replies that visit must be postponed
⁵

29 DECEMBER 1977

2 100ml. Mentadent tooth paste

6 large Vinolia soap

1 large Vaseline hair oil

1 kg Omo [washing powder]

11 MARCH 1979

DDD Syndrome: debility, dependancy, dread

27 APRIL 1979

Minister Jimmy Kruger visits Island accompanied by G. du Preez. We chat for about ± 15 minutes.
⁶

9 MAY 1979

Consultation with Dr A.C. Neethling, eye-specialist.

Eyesight excellent. Virus infection, but will soon clear no need for new spectacles

20 MAY 1979

Virus again active starts from left eye to the right one

21 MAY 1979

Right eye singularly painful and red

22 MAY 1979

In the afternoon commence with Albucid drops

23 MAY 1979

I dream coming home at night with doors wide open and Zami asleep in one bed and in the other chdn [children], possible Zeni and Zindzi. Many school children outside. I embrace Zami and she orders me to bed.

24 MAY 1979

Start using Albucid 30% eyedrops midday

1 JUNE 1979

‘It’s easy to hope, it’s the wanting that spoils it.’

2 JUNE 1979

In a sick country every step to health is an insult to those who live on its sickness

The purpose of freedom is to create it for others

3 JUNE 1979

Zami and Zazi for 1 hr.
⁷
Zami in red jersey and head gear

Zazi in coat similar to mine

12 JUNE 1979

[In Afrikaans] Gnl. Roux came. Spoke with Brig. Du Plessis.

14 JUNE 1979

21st wedding anniversary

14 JULY 1979

Zeni, Zindzi and Zamaswazi visit for 45 minutes
⁸

Zamaswazi has cold and yells frequently

6 AUGUST 1979

Minister L le Grange visits the prison accompanied by C.O.P. [Commanding Officer of the Prision] Du Preez
⁹

15 SEPTEMBER 1979

Acting Paramount Chief Bambilanga visits me 1.30 hrs
¹⁰

9 OCTOBER 1979

Interview with Mr A.M. Omar re state vs Sabata Dalindyebo.

17 OCTOBER 1979

Weight without clothes 75 kg

20 OCTOBER 1979

Interview with Zindzi for ±1 hr.

Zindzi looks beautiful and cheerful. Staying with Anne [
sic
] Tomlinson

21 OCTOBER 1979

Zindzi returns for ±45 minutes. Again looks bright and cheerful. Chat on books and publisher Mike Kirkwood.

5 NOVEMBER 1979

Hospitalised: Minor op. removal of torn tendon on right heel; performed by Dr Breytenbach.

Dream Zindzi and I visit Bara [Baragwanath Hospital] at night. Asked why I instructed a certain lawyer instead of another.

17 NOVEMBER 1979

Zami sees me for ±2 hrs. Pale blue dress – put on reasonable weight and looking really elegant

19 NOVEMBER 1979

POP and stitches removed by Sgt Kaminga. Rather large ossicle removed from right heel by Dr Breitenbach. Anaesthetic Dr C Moss

3 DECEMBER 1979

Letter re purchase [of] slippers addressed to Major Harding

25 DECEMBER 1979

1 hr visit from Zami: Xmas groceries from Pmburg [Pietermaritzburg].

26 DECEMBER 1979

45 minute visit from Zami and Swati. Promises to send 20 photos

3 JANUARY 1980

Reading ‘Black as I am’: Zindzi’s 55 poems. ‘Black and Fourteen’ to be published shortly

To NM in his imprisonment and Nomzamo Mandela in her sentence of silence for the suffering they do for all of us.
¹¹

10 JANUARY 1980

New blade

13 JANUARY 1980

Milk for Tea

26 JANUARY 1980

Visited by Zami for ± 45 minutes. She complains that Madiba looks tired.

13 MARCH 1980

Swati’s 1st birthday

19 MARCH 1980

Received Zami’s telegram re Lily’s [Lilian Ngoyi] death

20 MARCH 1980

Sent condolence telegram (urgent) to Edith Ngoyi
¹²

14 MAY 1980

Mrs Helen Suzman MP comes with Gen. Roux.
¹³
Interview for ±1 hr.

23 MAY 1980

Consultation with Dr. A.L. Maresky pronounces me in good condition. Heart better than the last time he examined me.

Dreamt returning home late at night, almost at dawn. Embraced sickly Zami as she enters the backdoor of our Orlando home. Zeni is about 2 yrs and has swallowed a razor blade which she vomits out. I spank her for it.

25 MAY 1980

Dream about Zami, Zeni and Zindzi. Zeni is about 2 yrs. Zindzi asks me to kiss her and remarks that I am not warm enough. Zeni also asks me to do so.

8 JUNE 1980

Zami returns cheerful in blue garment.

9 JUNE 1980

Balance R41.44

24 JUNE 1980

Sgt Kamminga takes blood pressure 180/90

30 JUNE 1980

Examined by Dr Kaplan BP. 120/80 weight taken 78 kg. Also read to me Dr Maresky report on cardiograph.

12 JULY 1980

Zami, Zindzi and Zobuhle fail to turn up because of rough weather

13 JULY 1980

Zami, Zindzi and Zobuhle turn up on extended visit
¹⁴

Announcement of death of Sir Seretse Khama

24 AUGUST 1980

Buthi and Kgatho,
¹⁵
the first time I see Kgatho with tie on.

7 SEPTEMBER 1980

250g Nescafe R4.10
Mustard Sauce 54 cents
Trims 45
Coconut cookies 54
Sandwich spread 71
Marmite 55
Fray Bentos 55
Game lemon 26
Cake mixture 250g 38

14 SEPTEMBER 1980

Zami and Oupa. Zami in maroon dress and a gold plated pendant looks lovely. Oupa in a suit (black) with white stripes
¹⁶